In this podcast, I discuss a wide range of issues with Stephen Grootes, ranging from the impact of COVID-19 on the world to the June 2012 ruling of the South African Constitutional Court allowing for independent candidacy in elections, the Black Lives Matter movement and the removal of colonial statues in the USA and the UK, and the poor legacy of Burundi’s Pierre Nkurunziza. As much as the world grapples with repeated rounds of negativity, there are splashes of positive news everywhere and I challenge people to lean into them. All in all, I encourage people to humble themselves to learn about the world around them and engage decisively. Statues might be pulled down today, but they are only symbolic of the failure of leadership in public spaces. We must never tire of demanding for real change, even as we pull down symbolic statues.